‘I haven’t spoken to him’: McLennan taking Eddie’s word on Japan job talks

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Rugby Australia chairman Hamish McLennan has admitted he still hasn’t spoken to Eddie Jones about the Wallabies coach’s secret job interview with the Japanese Rugby Football Union, and says that while he is keen to stay in his position as chair, he will accept his fate if he is deemed not to be “part of the solution”.

McLennan spoke with the Herald after the Wallabies’ humbling loss to Wales in Lyon, which effectively secured Australia’s first-ever pool stage exit from a Rugby World Cup.

On what was arguably the darkest day in Australian rugby, it was revealed by this masthead that Jones had held a job interview with the JRFU while in France, just days out from the start of the Rugby World Cup.

McLennan said he had not confronted Jones about the interview, having left it to Rugby Australia chief executive Phil Waugh. Both are taking Jones at his word, McLennan said, but he’d be “surprised and disappointed” if Jones walked.

McLennan also said he had no regrets sacking Dave Rennie, and believes the Wallabies painful early exit will act as the catalyst for overdue systemic change in Australian rugby.

Payten: There is a huge sense of anger in Australia about the Wallabies’ first-ever World Cup exit, including towards the Rugby Australia leadership. Will you be considering your future as Rugby Australia chair?

McLennan: I am fully accountable for all the decisions that I have made and I am conscious that the reforms that are needed with rugby need to get pushed through. If I am part of the solution, or not, I will live with that. I jumped into rugby’s implosion when very few wanted to, in the middle of 2020. I have donated my RA salary back to women’s and Indigenous rugby and have done it all for the right reasons. I feel I am making calls that are well intended and for the good of the game, including winning the 2027 and 2029 Rugby World Cups for Australia, which will be transformative.

Hamish McLennan is backing Eddie Jones.Credit: Steven Siewert, Getty Images

What about the other parts of Rugby Australia leadership – the board and the chief executive? What level of accountability should they take?

The board and the CEO are largely new, excellent in skills and fully independent. And they know what needs to be done. This moment has to be a pivotal moment in time, where we all come together to solve all of the structural issues in the game.

Do you regret sacking Dave Rennie and hiring Eddie Jones, given the Wallabies exit in the pool stages of a Rugby World Cup?

The game has really gone backwards since the 2015 final of the Rugby World Cup. We were kicked out in the quarter-finals in 2019, quite convincingly, by England and we lost a pool match to Wales. So, the data would suggest the game has been going backwards for some time.

The reason we made the change at the beginning of the year was we knew it was a real possibility [under the old regime] that this could happen, so perhaps this is a case of too little, too late. Eddie Jones has delivered three different countries to a Rugby World Cup final and so I think it is too simplistic to blame one person. Eddie has the respect of [former All Blacks coach] Steve Hansen and other legendary coaches from around the world. I have been saying for three years the game needs constitutional and structural reform and now is the time to do it.

On the point about fears of a Rennie-led team going out in the pool stages, some believe they could have made the finals.

We will never really know the answer to that. But the team had a failed Spring Tour, lost to Italy and was at 36 per cent. So to do nothing and hope for the best didn’t feel like the right thing to do. Our issues are far more systemic.

What do you know about Eddie Jones talking to the JRFU about taking up a coaching job with them next year?

I haven’t spoken to Eddie directly about it. But Waughy did and we are taking him on his word and he said there is nothing in it.

Eddie Jones at his press conference after Australia’s 40-6 loss to Wales.Credit: Getty

Is it a concern for you that Eddie walking away from a five-year contract is a possibility?

I would be surprised and disappointed if he were to go, but, ultimately, he has to want to be in Australia. Whilst the recriminations have started, he is regarded as one of the best coaches in the world, an Australian and this has been validated by a number of well-informed ex-Wallabies and other great coaches.

What about the fans? It would appear a majority do not support him at the moment.

I completely understand the fans’ anger, but rugby’s issues are far more systemic and deep-rooted and the only way to get the performance we expect is a radical re-shaping of the game. We have consistently been saying this for three years now.

Would you consider terminating Eddie’s contract for interviewing the JRFU?
Eddie has said there’s nothing in it, and we take him on his word.

Having exited the Rugby World Cup, do you have fear about the Wallabies being able to field a competitive team against the British and Irish Lions in 2025. It is only two years away.

I absolutely feel we can field a competitive team, which is why we were looking to bring in new talent and fresh blood, but it’s an incredibly complex situation to solve. It’s not just one thing. But ultimately a decision has been made to back youth and build a team for the future.

What is your plan for the Rugby World Cup review, and then in the longer term, to get the game back on its feet?

The review will be an independent review of the coaching staff, to look at all aspects of the World Cup campaign. Which is the right thing to do. We have some significant commercial opportunities that we need to continue to lock down, whether that be sponsorship, broadcast and continuing the process to finalise plans for the Lions and the men’s and women’s World Cups. We continue to work closely with member unions and clubs, to get the critical reform needed to manage the game.

Wallabies teammates console each other after the Wales defeat.Credit: AP

Do you have concerns about the impact of this World Cup exit on Rugby Australia from a commercial viewpoint?

The early exit does limit some of our upside potential, but I also think from the conversations I am having that there are a lot of commercial partners, in all forms, that are buying into rugby, and the values and opportunities of our game. Other major unions have been through what we have to go through, look at France, Ireland and what Scotland have done. While this moment is really painful, we have to seize the opportunity to change the game and to fix it.

A push for centralisation has been flagged but will this exit make it more difficult for Rugby Australia to gain the trust and co-operation of the states?

I would hope it actually makes it easier because you don’t need any more proof for why we need to change are having some very constructive conversations with our Member Unions and Super Clubs. The evidence for structural change has been building for years and years and whilst the recriminations will always be there, the blueprint for reform and necessary change has been talked about by us for many years now. We need to seize the opportunity to fix the game for good.

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